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要创业,先就业
2009-12-21

————曹德旺做客人民网畅谈青年创业

时间:2009年12月21日8:30-9:30

地点:人民网视频演播室

嘉宾:福耀玻璃工业集团股份有限公司董事长曹德旺

主持:唐冬梅

主题:谈青年创业   

[主持人]:各位网友早上好,欢迎收看人民网视频访谈节目。我是主持人唐冬梅。今天到演播室做客的嘉宾是您的老朋友,他就是著名的企业家、慈善家、福耀玻璃集团董事长曹德旺先生。曹总欢迎您再次到人民网做客。  

[曹德旺]:谢谢。

[主持人]:通过预告,我们都知道,今天曹总跟我们大家聊天的主题是青年创业。在开始今天的访谈之前,我们首先祝贺曹总在上个星期,也就是18号,在上海获得了全国十佳董事会,也是在全国几千家上市公司当中脱颖而出。在昨天人民大会堂揭晓的“2009 十大经济人物”当中又当选了十大人物,福耀玻璃的品牌也获得了“共和国60年自主创新品牌20强”,对此向福耀,向曹总表示祝贺。   

[曹德旺]:谢谢。 

[主持人]:和上次一样,网友们的热情还是非常高的,您还没有落座,已经有很多网友提出了很多问题要和您交流。首先我们还是聊我们的一些问题。青年创业和国家的未来,您认为是一个什么样的关系? 

[曹德旺]:曾经有人这样说过,“青年志,则国家志;青年强,则国家强”。具备有志青年的国家队伍是国家未来的希望。所以,希望青年人能够奋斗,能够奋发图强,也希望他们积极地参与就业和创业的队伍。  

[主持人]:您觉得什么样的青年适合创业?什么样的青年适合就业?   

[曹德旺]:现在人的寿命普遍长了,把50岁以下的人都应该界定为青年,我认为所有人都应该去寻找机会就业或者创业,但是做任何事情都不应该勉强,我虽然是白手起家出身,但是我认为现在真正要去创业,就要注意很多问题。  

首先,作为一个创业家,你必须有起码的资本,有能够经得起折腾的一笔钱。其次,对你所创立的产业当中有认识、有经验,或者你有企业管理的专长。比如你非常精通会计或者管理、统计能力,或者是生产能力,或者工艺能力,这些都是非常关键的。第三,更关键的是你要对市场的变化有一个前瞻性的预测和应对变化的方法与能力。符合这些东西才可以去创业,如果不具备这些东西,我认为,还是要慎重。  

从我的经验来说,福耀集团总资产超过100亿,在我的报表中体现90几亿,因为我折旧提20几亿,我们员工一万名,平均一个人的就业,我就需要掏120万的人民币,可以想象现在创业有多难。 

其次,现在创业和过去不一样了,在我创业的初期,什么东西拿出来卖都可以,因为物资匮乏,现在是生产力过剩,扔掉的玻璃都比我以前创业初期做的玻璃好。这是很客观的事情。因此,我认为,创业者需要对自己有足够的了解,对市场有一定的了解,还要有足够的勇气,敢于承担这个责任和挑战自我。我在创业初期,20年里面,没有礼拜天,没有礼拜六,每天工作到晚上12点,一天工作16个小时,是这样过来的。   

[主持人]:您评价一下我国青年创业的环境? 

[曹德旺]:如果说从中国现有的创业环境,我认为是非常好的。首先政府在推动改革开放,因为它没有现成的经验,要解决历史的问题,又要解决现实的问题。比如我的成功,我的成功如果不是在中国也难以成功。因为我当时创业时自己没有钱,是承包乡镇的工厂起家的。按照国际上的做法,你没有钱,人家都不会帮助你,那时候政府还给我提供一些贷款。从政策和认识的推动上,应该说我们国家所做的东西都给创业提供了良好的条件,我不认为我们在这方面有什么需要再完善的东西。 

[主持人]:您认为我国青年创业的进程当中,金融机构应该为青年创业提供一些什么样的支持? 

[曹德旺]:你这个问题问得很好。很多人不了解金融机构,什么是金融机构?金融机构是包含着商业银行和非银行的金融机构。这里指保险公司、投资银行、各种基金,这些都叫金融机构。国际上采用的做法,因为商业银行是老百姓把剩余的钱存在它里面,这里有几块来源:一块就是结算资金的来源,就是企业在那边结算,利用面上的被金融机构用来周转,这也是商业银行主要的部分。第二块,老百姓存款,只赚存贷的利差。这些钱它不敢拿去投资,也不敢贷给有风险的企业,因为银行本身没有这个权利。在国际上,投资给你这些风险企业的,就是作为固定资产的,有一个创投基金,就是专门给年轻人,或者有这方面经验的人,由银行的投行部组织,公开招募,卖这个基金的时候跟你讲,你买我的基金,你去拿去做什么,拿去投房地产的,或者投高科技,或者投农业,当然这里风险很大,但是我过去的表现很好,就是高风险下的高利润。非银行机构、投行这一块吸纳的是社会上真正的闲置资金,就是扔掉了亏本了也不会导致它去死。而且银行也不需要负责任,我跟你讲,拿去投资,一起集中起来拿去投某个项目,这里的投资肯定有风险。因为投资是一个风险事业,大家都意识到这个事情的时候,它亏了也没有关系,国际上小企业创业初期的钱是由风投基金完成的,不是商业银行。  

千亿国际娱乐登陆,一方面,电影制片单位审批、摄制电影片(单片)许可证审批均被取消,鼓励更多的企业和个人投入电影产业。  中介环顾一周,指着房屋高处的几处脏点说是租客弄的,也要扣钱。“我有渡工证,只要我还干得动,我都会继续为大家摆渡,我感觉我的身体能干到70岁!”倪华成挥挥手,语气铿锵,仿佛又回到了当年撑竹排护送学生过河的模样。  不过,当前应届高校毕业生数量屡创新高,化解过剩产能职工分流安置压力凸显,不少人担忧延迟退休政策会大量挤占现有就业岗位。

胜博发国际手机版,”  2016年2月,我们将“百名红通人员”付耀波、张清曌同时抓获归案。1945年元月,冀鲁豫军区十二分区(即水东军分区)成立,余克勤任司令员、袁振任政委。然而,与其仅一街之隔的另一块同等规模的国有土地(9492平方米)售价却高达14.23亿日元,是前者的10多倍。  3.高校“双一流”建设该怎样发力?  【镜头】2017年1月,教育部、财政部、国家发展改革委联合印发《统筹推进世界一流大学和一流学科建设实施办法(暂行)》,引导和支持具备较强实力的高校合理定位、办出特色、差别化发展,努力形成支撑国家长远发展的一流大学和一流学科体系。

千亿国际娱乐登陆,  在贵州省安顺市普定县陇财村,青山下,绿水旁,道路硬化,白墙黛瓦,座座小楼错落别致,引来许多游客流连忘返。这项工作由财政部负责,已安排财政赤字2.18万亿元。中俄双方再次就美国和韩国推进在韩部署“萨德”反导系统表明严重关切和坚决反对,敦促美韩尊重中俄正当合理的安全关切,不做损害中俄利益和地区战略平衡的事,停止部署进程。  房地产业内营销人士曾告诉笔者,组织集中开盘,不仅可以形成市场热销的口碑,还往往成为新闻报道中的主角。

我们国家真正想经营出什么产品,怎么帮助这些年轻人创业,不妨可以效仿美国30年代的做法。美国在前世纪的100年里,第一次崩盘,1906年的6月份开始,后来它在30年中他发生了六次经济崩盘,引发了美国30年代的大萧条。当然这是一个部分,更关键的,我认为这30年里面,美国所培养的人才全部回到农村,因为在城里活不下去,农村沉淀着一批非常优秀的,可供经济迅速发展的人才队伍。这些人才以后和农场主在一起,成立了风投基金,这对美国企业的崛起起到很大的作用。   

国家鼓励金融出什么产品呢?现在我发现,中国贫困人员很厉害,又有一大批人从弱到大赚了很多钱,但是第一代企业家、第二代企业家赚了钱也不知道怎么花,因为他没有投行的经验,不妨鼓励年轻人和他们合作,联合成立用于生产力发展的投资基金。这样的话,规范它的管理行为,只要监管得利,不管盈亏,大家都可以接受。我们不妨效仿美国三四十年代的知识青年和那些农场主做的那些投资基金。  

[主持人]:中小企业的金融问题、融资问题确实是一个非常普遍的问题。社会上各个机构和一些金融机构也做了很多的努力,但是成效并不是很显著。 

[曹德旺]:不能鼓励商业银行给他贷款,商业银行不能给他贷。应该鼓励那些有钱人成立风险基金,给他提供资金,跟他合作。年轻人创业确实风险很大。为什么一直强调青年创业呢?国家主要考虑就业问题。但就业问题不是单单靠创业能够解决问题,应该从多方面的意识来解决这样的问题。一方面就业成问题,一方面我们企业招工难,我刚才跟你讲了,为了招一个工人,我要掏120万,现在我招不到人,这次我听说我们旁边有一个解放军部队有600人要转业回去的时候,我们在市委领导的推动下,到了他们部队,政委、团长都非常高兴接待我们,我们跟他开了一个座谈会,欢迎他们加入福耀。我们给他们的待遇是,承认他在部队当兵时候的工龄,一进来的工资就超过2000块钱以上,但是真正拿到手的,报名的只有50人。因为大家都在争夺这一块。原来我们招工的主要劳动力,就是高中毕业生。现在高中毕业生,一个都招不来。因为高中生上大学占80%,去大专各种学校,剩下20%有的回家了,我们就招不到什么了。再加上这几年国家,推销电话卡、保险卡、信用卡,用了很多中专生、大专生。还有房地产行业,一个楼盘开出来有几百人,大盘有几百人,小盘的有几十人,他需要保安、保健员、物业管理员、售楼小姐。再有就是社区里的服务部,比如老公在那里买的房子,她在那边开小店,不要求有多少工资,她只需要在那里边带孩子边看着店面。  

为什么又会有就业问题呢?尹蔚民部长在8月21日《人民日报》上谈中国就业形势的严峻,我们后来对这一方面也做了一些调研。我个人的初步分析是这样几个原因造成的。历史地看,中国有儒家学说上“子曰:学而优则仕”。但是这里有两点误区:我们对儒教推广不多,学而优则仕,学而优,什么是优?品学兼优,要有品,要有学,要有专长。我做企业家也是“仕”,“行行出状元”,只要你有心,学有所成应该贡献给大家。我们过去对这句话有误解。第二句话,原来历史上,前面的旧人落后,政府管理干部都是上学校招人,大学毕业生出来到政府当公务员,前几年都是这样的,后来这几年经济发展了,大学办了很多,原来只有5%的高中生升学,现在80%的高学生升学,这个明显不合理,这么多人都去当官了,田谁种、工厂谁办,这是不合理的,这是一个因素。这是年轻人想当公务员,寻求出仕,这方面的欲望比较强烈。 

第二,和我们的社会制度有关系,我们是发展中国家,经济相对来说还是落后,经济落后就引发教育资源的落后,各方对争夺教育资源就争夺得很厉害,不管他是达官显贵的子女,还是平民百姓的子女,还是知识分子的子女,他一生孩子,孩子五六岁的时候就背唐诗、打乒乓球、弹钢琴,什么能教就教什么,甚至移民做少数民族都可以,他们所做的事情只为一个目的,争夺社会资源。一切都是由父母操纵包办在做这个事情,国外是怎么教育的?欧美的教育,初年级,就是三年级以下的孩子,教室里面排满了玩具,一天上半天课,都是玩,我们到下面参观他们的学校的时候,小孩子读书的时候,半天课怎么上呢?白天天气好,到公园去上,夏天天气暖和,他会让学生把衣服脱下来,这样子放在这里,把裤子脱下来,这样子放在这里,老师也脱得光光的,陪着他们去做,摸石头、摸鱼,实际上这是培养孩子的独立性,放学回去,父母陪他玩,假期的时候,父母带着他到处旅游。这是在鼓励孩子的独立性。再后面,小学毕业升到初中,初中第一课是学习宪法,孩子很可爱,爸爸一揍他的时候,他说,“你不许揍我,你侵犯人权,我打电话报警”,你看,他保护自己的意识在初中一年级就开始形成。初中毕业的时候“成年礼”培养他的宗教信仰。当然,儒教也是一个宗教。这种哲学思想培养出来的人才,像我一样的。不过,我不是受学校教育长大的,我是受社会教育长大的。  

我到今天为止最怕的是什么?最怕的是过节。因为你们一放长假,我就觉得很无奈,我不知道做什么,因为我没有工作就感觉会死。因此,外国的大学生毕业后没有工作会变成神经病。因此当听到奥巴马访华时说要向中国学习准备派10万大学生留学中国时,我说完蛋了。如果美国10万个留学生真正进中国的话,我们所有合资企业的高级白领的位置全部被他占去了,因为美国的大学生是培训他的动手能力,他自己很愿意到处找工作,因此大企业都被他们占去了,他们英语又那么好,又那么喜欢到处找工作,我们跟他有什么竞争力。我们本来就业就紧张,你再来十万个,我们不是又少了十万个位置吗?这是就业上的问题。 

第三,现在大学生不去就业的时候,等待公务员、垄断事业,说明公务员和垄断企业的社会待遇和薪酬优于社会其他行业。这个问题也是他们不愿意加入我们民营企业的原因。如果能够真正查出是什么原因,要解决的话,要针对它的原因所在,有针对性地“开药”。

[主持人]:每一个人成长的环境也是不一样,环境不一样,所经历的事情也不一样。就业和创业这个话题应该是非常复杂的一个问题。  

[曹德旺]:我认为是这样的问题。 [主持人]:创业者是非常不容易的,其中一小部分人可能经过努力创业成功了,您对这一部分创业成功的人有什么话跟他们交流? 

[曹德旺]:什么叫成功?像我这样就算成功了吗?我认为我还没有成功,我对自己的定义只是创业初成。万里长征我只迈出了一步,再往前,有更多更多的路要走。让我跟创业成功的人讲一句话,要小心,企业家的事业是风险企业,借助《红楼梦》中黛玉在葬花的时候唱的一段台词:“一年三百六十日,风刀霜剑严相逼”,这就是企业家的处境,因此我与大家共勉,我们还应该更加谨慎对待。  

[主持人]:就您现在的情况,您已经是中国的行业老大,这是毫无疑问的,在全球已经排到了同行业的前三位,以您现在这样子的成就,您对自己的评价仅仅是“创业初成”。这会不会给一些青年创业者一些畏惧感? 

[曹德旺]:我相信不会。如果他们真正有勇气创业、有条件创业,他们会以我作为榜样,不断地去努力,去奋斗,去拼搏。以完善自我为目的的拼搏。 

[主持人]:每个人的心理承受能力是有一个极限的,经过一些努力以后,他感觉看不到希望,找不到成功的感觉,就是所谓的失败。对这个失败的创业者,您有什么话跟他们分享吗? 

[曹德旺]:失败也没有关系,应该坦诚相对。时间有限,我也不跟你讲我曾经在年轻的时候也失败过。失败是胜利之母,这是很多人讲的话。但是我认为,我们整个社会应该去理解失败,对那些创业失败者,他所承受的是社会压力,我们社会各界应该本着这样的态度:不以胜败论英雄,只要他曾经勇敢地走向创业,迈向创业的路上,就算英雄。好象奥运会一样,奥运会每个项目的冠军只有一个,成百上千人争夺这个事情,所有参赛的奥运健儿都算英雄。今天没有拿到冠军,只是说可能今天发挥得不好,或者情绪不好。很多人不管成功还是失败,都给以热烈的鼓掌。因此我也建议我们社会各界也应该对那些曾经失败过或者正在失败的创业者抱以热烈的掌声,鼓励他、安慰他,跟他讲,我相信你,以后肯定会行,不要因为这一次失败而感到灰心丧气。   

[主持人]:创业者一般在创业初期的时候都是非常缺乏经验的,您不但创业做得非常漂亮,而且在企业管理方面也建有奇功的企业家,您是否有帮助年轻人创业的计划?有没有这方面的安排? 

[曹德旺]:我对什么人都想帮助,但是要看我的时间安排。我奉行的是这样的宗旨,要救别人,先救自己,先保证自己的实力,以后才有实力去帮别人。我不会自己不会游泳还去救别人,人家去死,你也去死,那不是很好。你要下水救人,要有很好的水性,如果我没有很好的水性,我下去救人的话,不一定能够救活你,等于社会多了一个牺牲品。  

在我自己有能力的情况下,我帮了很多人。即使有一点点时间,我们也会去奋斗。但是我跟大家共享的是,创业一定要小心。我今年帮助一个人,这是一个很年轻的女人,大概不到30岁,与丈夫一起办了一个夫妻公司——生产电视机底座铸造的厂,因为欠交电费和欠交租金,被停了电。有人给她建议说,你去找大老板,大老板心肠很好,可能他会放过你。她来找我,我跟她说,电费是集团的,这是上市公司,我不敢自作主张,电费要去交,房租这一块不是集团的,我可以拍板,你可以暂时不交。我说我给你看看你生产情况怎么样。那是7月份的时候,很热的时候,我到他工厂视察了一下,后来就发现很多问题。 

第一,没有企业管理经验,物流流程设计不合理,工厂显得很零乱。第二,投资太仓促,都是二手设备,肯定是不好的,成品率不高。第三,他对成本没有概念,他要融化,要焦炭融化,他用的是最贵的融化,我说本来你这个工厂不应该放在市区,应该放在郊区,用煤炭融化,煤炭成本会降下来,煤炭发电,可以降低成本。第四,他没有企业必须具备的会计核算系统。银行不敢给他贷款,客户都不相信他,你说你赚钱还是亏本,都凭你自己的经验来做,你到底亏和赚都说不准,后来我帮他规划流程,帮他规划会计核算……现在,基本上保本好一点,略有盈余。  

企业管理是一个综合性的学科,他跟我不能比的,我承包工厂之前,学了会计,学了质量管理,我现在很自豪地说,在我们福耀集团,我可以胜任的不单单是董事长位置,我可以出任财务总监,可以出任会计总监,可以出任质量总监,我可以出任人力资源总监,我有这个水平。这样才能够把我企业搞得风生水起,如果我不是多面手,怎么搞呢? 

[主持人]:知识结构非常重要。  [曹德旺]:我创业的时候,企业小,雇不到人,什么东西都要我自己先去外面学,学完回来再做。 

[主持人]:知识的储备和准备也是非常重要的。 

[曹德旺]:最近人家送了一本《康熙大帝》,康熙大帝的成功是因为他非常好学,给他总结是少年好学,青年是奋学,就是非常苦学,到他成年的时候是博学,到康熙的晚年可以说通学。这就是康熙大帝,一个成功皇帝的帝业就是这样建的。 

[主持人]:在咱们直播当中有非常多的网友也有非常多的问题,希望能够跟您分享一下。 

[主持人]:网友“红岸”:在全球经济一片歌舞升平的2007年,你就从当时流行的“人民币升值”、“税改”、“贸易摩擦”、“反倾销”等热门词汇当中敏感捕捉到了一些隐隐约约的趋势,于是您采取了果断的措施,提前规避了企业可能遭受的风险,结果福耀集团在2008年和2009年都保持了一个利润平稳增长的势头,有效地抵御了由美国引发的全球金融风暴的影响,而且还是逆风飞扬,使集团在全球同行业排名当中由第四位跃升为第三位。您作为一个创业者,您从零开始,经过几十年的奋斗,现在已经达到了全球第三的巅峰状态,其中您一定有非常深的感受。同时,您也非常有资格说话。所以请问您,您认为青年人适合就业还是适合创业?

[曹德旺]:我总是跟青年人讲,你们先选择就业。在就业的时候,你要记住要去赚两笔钱:一笔是硬的钱,就是老板每个月发给你的工资,多少都没有关系,象征性地拿也没有关系,最关键的是拿软的东西,就是积累你将来创业的经验,培养你个人的核心竞争力。个人的核心竞争力不是钱可以买的,也不是可以去偷的,偷是偷不来的。有一天你掉到河里面去,大江大浪怎么冲你,只要你不死,大浪也不会把你冲走的。我认为应该先选择就业,向各界学习。特别是前面我讲的不足的补充,积累社会实践。  

[主持人]:第二个问题,您怎样看待事业和待遇的关系?

[曹德旺]:看你追求待遇还是追求事业。动机决定了你最后的结果。解放以前的人去当人家学徒的时候,只赚吃,老板是管吃管住不管钱,我爸当了三年的学徒,吃什么?吃老板家的剩饭剩菜,做什么?要负责老板厨房里面的一切事情,要挑水,还要给老板娘倒马桶、倒尿壶。我爸后来感激不感激那个人,我爸非常感激那个人。第一年让他煮饭、煮菜,挑水、倒马桶、倒尿壶。第二年做的事情是什么?因为他是布店,所以叫他把卖剩下的货打包到乡下去推销。第三年让他站柜台,教他怎么待客人,怎么进货,怎么出货。三年到了的时候跟他说,你可以自己去开店了,将来有什么事情需要帮忙可以来找我。我爸爸后来很成功。他在解放前的时候,也是上海一家大百货的股东。 

[曹德旺]:因此我爸爸把他的经验告诉我,就是老板没有把刀压在你脖子上面叫你滚,不让你干的时候,你就默默无闻地去做,每天坚持去做。 记住,这是在为您自己做的。

[主持人]:承受也是一种能力。“红岸”网友的第三个问题就是怎么样处理好就业或者是创业的行业选择?选什么行业去就业或者创业?

[曹德旺]:我看没有什么特定的。你选就业也好,选创业也好,选择你自己最感兴趣的东西。如果没有很感兴趣的,就选择你的所长。天下没有下等的职业,只有下等的人,我认为,没有不成功的行当,只存在不争气的人、不成功的人。 

[主持人]:兴趣也是最好的老师。

[曹德旺]:是。 

[主持人]:“红岸”网友还有一个问题,怎么样把握好人生命运的关节点与长远目标的关系?

[曹德旺]:我认为有一个定理,首先中国有一句话,“以不变应万变”,这句话来源于《易经》,以不变应万变的时候,“不变”就是自己的人生规划、终身目标,“万变”就是为了实现目标,只要不违反社会公德,其他的什么办法、手段都可以用。这是为实现目标,其他的手段怎么选,我认为都是可以考虑的。 

[主持人]:下面是一位作家朋友提问,一个能够准确预测全球金融危机的企业家必定是非常注重学习和信息的利用。请问董事长,在企业文化和信息化建设方面,福耀集团是怎么样带好头的?

[曹德旺]:信息化有软件和硬件。从硬件上面,我们1995年就引进了集成管理系统,是中国在制造业运用这个软件最成功的几个企业之一。从软件方面看,我认为我们每天所看过的新闻,读过的书,从里面捕捉到他们的信息,这比硬件方面更重要。  

[曹德旺]:在文化方面,福耀的文化价值核心,最核心的文化就是学习创新,谋求发展,兼善天下。创新是向日本丰田学习的,“兼善天下”是我们中国的三教的主张。

[主持人]:这位作家朋友问您第二个问题,请您预测一下全球经济的春天什么时候能够到来?  

[曹德旺]:全球经济的春天,今天是21号,明天是冬至,冬至完了是小寒、大寒,大寒完了才立春。如果按季节算,还有两三个月到。 

我们去年看到美国引发的全球危机,那只是一个果,不是一个因。到底什么原因呢?奇怪,现在全世界人都不讨论。是不愿意讨论,还是没有办法找出原因,这都是一个问题。问题还没有找出来,现在说这个“春天”已经来了,我们经济开始复苏了,我认为这明显是自我安慰的一种方式。政府这样的鼓吹,我认为是对的,它应该给人们一个信心。对于我们企业家和我们每一个个人的单体来说,这样理解能有一点欠考虑,也不利于自己的发展。 

[曹德旺]::我建议大家,这个事情不是我们中国一个政府可以做的,也不是哪一个领导人争论,这个事情发生的时候很无奈。实际上一个国家在进化过程当中,在进展过程当中,少受一些曲折,这是正常的。美国那么伟大的国家,从1900年到1935年的时候不是很狼狈吗?它走过的路,我们也得走一遍,这个道理很简单。一个小孩子从出生到会走路,到会跑,他不知道需要摔多少跤,不管是皇帝的孩子、贵族的孩子,父母很心疼他,但是不能替代他摔跤啊。美国人摔过的跤,中国人也会摔,不会因为时代变化了就不需要,不是这个问题。这是全民族的培育,只要到每个阶段经济的时候,会发生什么问题,这是一个规律的问题,我认为难以逆转。  

[曹德旺]:实际上也没有什么可怕的,只要我们同心同德,团结在中国政府的领导下,共同去克服,一定会渡过难关。让我讲,可能后面还有更困难的事情发生,但是我们要做好思想准备,积极的、热情的团结在党中央、中国政府的领导的政治布局下面,共同努力,去面对。 

[主持人]:团结就是力量,信心就是力量。  

[主持人]:网友“江南飞雁”说,曹德旺先生的创业精神和理念是值得中国企业创业者共赏和学习的。中国企业如何才能彰显自己的民族特色?  

[曹德旺]:作为企业家,不要老讲彰显自己民族特色,福耀现在就不单单是中国的品牌。我很自豪地告诉大家,我的汽车玻璃是装在全球八大汽车厂生产的汽车上面,比如奥迪、大众、奔驰、宝马、通用、福特、丰田,哪一种不装福耀玻璃,就是品牌国际化、文化国际化。作为企业家民族情结太浓了不会进步。但是作为企业家,必须要有一个很强烈的国家观念,这不是企业家所有的,佛教里面也提出来,就是“专严国土、利乐有情”,这就是强调做和尚去出家了也要爱国。因为我们生是中国人,就是死还是中国鬼,不管是入了哪个国籍,在哪里居住,你就是中国人,我们的母亲就是中国,应该对自己的祖国忠诚,要去寻求贡献。但是这个贡献当中,我们应该要与各国人民友好合作,充分尊重他们的利益,尊重他们的人格。当然不能够有损我们的形象,这也是塑造我们的形象,人家说中国人素质挺高的。我不认为品牌需要民族化,品牌应该是全球化、国际化。

[主持人]:“江南飞雁网友的第二个问题是,怎么样才能在复杂的国际竞争中实现自我保护? 

[曹德旺]:在儒教里面提到“仁、义、礼、智、信”,中国人说“君子爱财取之有道”。道是什么?道是妙不可言。妙是什么?妙是小于纳米的单位,几十万分之一的东西,看似有形却无形,无处不在的道德潜规则,这就是为商之道。你能够保护自己,首先要做到“仁”,就是淡泊名利,不要见什么都贪,一贪就上当。“义”就是敢于挑战未来,敢于挑战极限,敢于面对,是我错了我承担,是你错了我也有可能站起来说你必须改,这才是和一个企业家匹配的身份。儒家称“礼”,佛门叫“戒”,何谓“礼”?就是法律法规,对社会有约束的东西,在提倡的同时,首先自己要尊重人家,尊重不尊重人家,人家规定执行不执行这很关键的。我们有很多人在工作中说,老板,我是忠于你。我说你忠不忠于我没关系,你先忠于公司的规章制度。智就是要有前瞻性,企业家必须做到识人面高低,见未知长短——事情一出来,就知道这是大事小事,可以做不可以做。做事情有前瞻性。第五句话就是必须讲信誉,“小成靠智,大成靠德”。这五个连起来就是大德,你能够推动大德,你必定是成功。你就是抱病死掉,但是天下人还是敬你。   

[主持人]:“江南飞雁”网友还有一个问题,不同行业的企业怎么样才能实现共同携手地对付国外反倾销? 

[曹德旺]:我曾经和国外打过一场反倾销,打完以后,我认为不同行业不要携手。因为这是很现实的问题。反倾销写进国际贸易组织的条款里面,就是美国人当初忽悠的。各国都没有东西出口,就是美国到处忽悠人家。目前世界以国家为单位的政治治理的情况下,各国总统都有责任保护自己的利益。你和美国人谈反倾销,原来它是想欺负我们,用他们的东西压迫我们,很多爱国者导弹到处打人,跟他谈环境就等于没有用。  

[曹德旺]:我认为,应该放多精力的时候,我们谋求我们的自强,实际上我们没有那么多东西需要出口,只要我们去积极地推动分配制度的改革,让那些弱势群体有钱买我们自己制造的产品,我们什么时候有东西出口啊?本身就不足。我们13亿人需要很多东西。我和美国人讲,你认为我喜欢到你这里卖玻璃啊?我最渴望有一天全世界产品都被中国人买走。牵涉到他们利益的时候,他们肯定也会跟你干仗的。

[主持人]:网友“冬瓜糊涂”说,您对人们现在疯狂追求财富怎么看? 

[曹德旺]:我不知道疯狂追求财富是哪一方面的财富,可能是金钱,我认为那是傻瓜做的事情。我讲一个佛教的故事给你听,民间很多人去烧香、引财神,你知道财神是谁吗?财神是南方宝生如来,他主管天下财富,他主张什么?他说我如果给你一块钱,你很快乐,我明天再给你一块钱,你还快乐,后天给你一亿,你还快乐,总有一天你会不快乐,我给你几百亿,你不快乐,不知道几百亿怎么花,老婆对我不忠、孩子对我不孝。你如果说我不要这些东西,只要给你一颗平常心,你只要能够做到不贪,不嗔,不嫉,你就一辈子快乐。中了彩票我替你高兴,我们儒家说的“乐天下之乐”,我为你高兴,为你开心,你真好,你生了一个孩子,你真有福气,你找了一个漂亮老婆,老婆真漂亮,真贤慧,我祝福你。如果你能做到这么简单的事,你不是很快乐吗?你不妒忌,不管别人怎么样,你把别人的快乐当作自己的快乐,不妒忌别人,不记恨别人,你不是天下最有财富的人吗?

[曹德旺]:英国有一个哲学家,叫塞缪尔•斯迈尔斯,他写了一本书叫《品格——个人和民族的力量源泉》,他在书中说,对大多数人来说,当他作为一个普通人在自己平凡的生活中尽心尽责的时候,他最高尚的品格也就在这种持久的尽心尽责中表现出来了。他们或许没有金钱,没有财产,没有学问,没有权势,但是,他们依然拥有高尚的灵魂,拥有精神财富——诚实、正直、尽职尽责。无论是谁,只要他忠于职守,他就是在履行被创造出来的义务,也就是在锻造自己果敢的品格。在这个世界上,许多人尽管一无所有,但是,他们品格的荣耀同加冕的国王相比,可以说毫不逊色。我看完以后,觉得写得太好了,推荐给福耀集团的员工看。 

[主持人]:网友“日月潭”,他说,我是一个台湾青年,请问您什么时候来台湾发展您的事业?  

[曹德旺]:我们和台湾一水相隔,我的小孩子念小学的时候,我记得我姐姐常常唱那首歌《我爱我的台湾》,我现在也会哼两句。这是当初非常流行的歌曲。但是做企业家,有一个现实的考虑,就是有一个机会。我相信在商业机会成熟的情况下,我一定会到台湾去发展。  

[主持人]:由于时间关系,有很多问题来不及回答了,但是还有一个问题想请您简单讲一讲。网友“昨夜星辰”,您的捐赠几十亿资产的计划令我十分敬仰,但是如果你能够用您很小的一笔钱,培养出若干个“小曹德旺”,培养的“小曹德旺”像您一样为国家出力,您是否会特别开心呢?您是否有帮助青年创业的计划呢?  

[曹德旺]:非常开心。要想成为“小曹德旺”,我在去承包工厂之前,我学完了会计原理学、管理统计学、全面质量管理,当时全面质量管理是国家保密的,是从日本进口的小册子,是一个大工厂的厂长送给我的,他看完了给我看。“小曹德旺”不是用钱堆起来的,你说我给你多少钱,你保证成为“小曹德旺”,我认为不可能。如果你只是夸海口,那只是因为你对这方面还不是足够认识。梅花香自苦寒来,智慧和知识的区别,智慧是源于磨炼,不仅是靠读书读出来的。 

[主持人]:还有一个网友名字叫“沙漠中的骆驼”,他说我知道您在创业之初和几乎所有的创业者一样充满艰辛,您是否遇到过“贵人相助”?   

[曹德旺]:这句话问得很好,我正想跟你们讲。确实是,我遇到两个贵人。一个贵人是邓小平,他给我改革开放的一个机会,让我有发展的平台和空间。第二个贵人,我创业几年,成立福耀的时候,少年得志的时候,上海锦江饭店的一个老总到我公司来,他很崇拜我,近距离地跟我相处几天以后,他问我一个问题,他说曹总,听说你很喜欢读书?我说是。他说最近有一本新书你看过没有,我说是什么新书?他说《曾国藩》,你看过没有,我说没有。他说我回去寄一套书给你,他回去以后寄了一套书给我,我那时候非常忙,但是还是很热心地看,第一遍我不知道它讲的什么,但是我相信他寄书给我,肯定有原因,我第二遍看,一页一页地看,后来我抓到了,我知道他在批评我,少年得志,锋芒太露,曾国藩的下场,就是这样死的。曾国藩第一次兵败回去,几次自杀,躲在家里不治病,村里来了一个医生,曾国荃将他请回去给曾国藩看病,医生给他开了一个药方,即“敬胜怠,义胜欲,知其雄,守其雌。”12个字,后来我慢慢琢磨这几句话,头两句是骂曾国藩,前面太骄狂,现在败了,就装病不起,不像男子汉。后来我把它作为座右铭,写成对联挂在办公室,我认为这就是真正的贵人。 

[主持人]:一个小时的时间非常匆忙,非常短暂。我们感觉还有很多很多的话没有说出来,还有很多很多网友朋友的问题,还没有来得及交流。今天的时间已经到了,我们下次节目再见!  

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